Economy Matters podcast series

2/9/2023

Editor's note: You can also read the story in Economy Matters for more information about Mike Chriszt's outreach efforts in the Southeast.

Tom Heintjes: Hello, and thanks for returning for a new episode of the Economy Matters podcast. I'm Tom Heintjes, managing editor of the Atlanta Fed's Economy Matters magazine. Today I'm sitting down with Mike Chriszt, who is a vice president at the Atlanta Fed and our regional outreach officer. Mike is a 33-year veteran of the Atlanta Fed—actually, almost 34 years, if my math is right—but he's recently begun a new initiative that involves outreach to smaller communities in the Southeast—and not only talking to groups there about the Fed's mission, but also listening to their economic concerns. I asked him to be on the podcast today to talk about this new role, and what's behind its creation. Mike, thanks for being with us today.

Mike Chriszt: Thanks for having me, Tom.

Heintjes: Mike, you were a key architect of the Atlanta Fed's Regional Economic Information Network, which has been in place here for years and has been very successful in helping us gather grassroots economic information. But your new role doesn't involve gathering information as much as disseminating it, is that correct? Or is there an information-gathering aspect to it as well?

Chriszt: First of all, "a key architect"—that's very kind of you to put it that way.

Heintjes: You're welcome.

Chriszt: I was present at the beginning and helped get things started with my colleague Chris Oakley down in Jacksonville.

Heintjes: You were in the room where it happened.

Chriszt: I was, but let's give credit where credit is due. My colleague John Robertson really came up with the idea, and [Atlanta Fed research director] Dave Altig's vision—and support from [former Atlanta Fed president] Dennis Lockhart at the time—really got things going. But you're right, getting back to what I'm doing now—at its core, this initiative is really about explaining what the Fed is, our mission, our policy decisions—getting out there and explaining those to people, in areas where we just haven't had the resources to get to over the years. And the other thing that you said is exactly right as well: it's about listening to their concerns, answering their questions as best I can, and sharing what I hear with President Bostic and his policy advisers.

Heintjes: The Atlanta Fed—as an organization, overall—places a great deal of emphasis on accountability and transparency, and those issues. How do you transfer accountability and transparency to what you're doing now?

Chriszt: Absolutely right. Let's just talk about accountability for a second: it's essential. Our ability—this is my view on this—our ability to achieve our mission really depends on, and requires the support, and understanding of, the people that we serve. And being accountable means being present and listening to their concerns, answering their questions—like I said, as best we can—and incorporating what we hear into our overall economic narrative. So being present—I use that phrase quite a bit—being there physically and listening to people and seeing firsthand what they're experiencing and listening to how they're interpreting how the economy is affecting their lives, that's all about being accountable. The transparency part, Tom, is really...let's say more about explaining our policy actions. And if you think about how much more transparent the Fed is now than it was—you said I started 34 years ago or so? Thank you for dating me, by the way. I appreciate that.

Heintjes: You're very welcome.

Chriszt: But yes, it's totally different today than it was back when I started—and in a good way, because transparency, I think, helps us earn the trust of the American people, in whose interest we are working to serve.

Heintjes: So you could not see yourself in this role 34 years ago? The Fed would not have been the same organization?

Chriszt: No, I think not. Think about how often President Bostic is speaking to the public: either directly through a formal speech, or a message that he shares either on social media or on our website, the interviews that he gives to media, both national and local—that is completely different. And even more broadly, Chairman Powell and the press conference he has after every FOMC [Federal Open Market Committee] meeting—I won't say they're new—they've been evolving over the years—but they certainly did not exist 30 years ago.

Heintjes: Mike, could you talk a little about what initially gave rise to your new undertaking? I can't imagine this idea came to you suddenly. You must have seen a need for it for some time and had it percolating about for a while in your mind.

Chriszt: The impetus was, coming out of the pandemic we realized that we needed to be out there in the public, explaining our view of what was happening in the economy—because there was so much uncertainty, and every decision that the Fed was making had an impact on where the economy was likely to go from there. And because we had lost so much time during the pandemic—at the time, I was the officer over Public Affairs, and we had several discussions about getting out there and how is that going to look, and really trying to step up our game coming out of the pandemic. And we did a geographic analysis of where we've been and, more importantly, where we haven't been. And it was clear that we were missing a lot of smaller communities—small towns, small cities, rural areas—in our district. Putting these two things together was the original idea. Then, of course, it was, "Okay, how are we going to structure this? What is this going to look like?" It would take time to spin up a program where we'd have lots of people going out and doing this, and it was something that I could start from day one. I could start immediately. I love going out and talking to people—it's always been the best part of my job here at the Fed and the number of roles that I've had over the years. And so I put all that together and proposed it to my boss, Leah Davenport. She saw value in it, and thankfully President Bostic and our first VP, André Anderson, also supported the idea. So that's how it developed, and how it got started.

Heintjes: Mike, as I mentioned in our opening, your new role doesn't involve only talking to folks, but also listening to them, is that right? How important is it to you to listen to them? Whereas before, you gathered data—now you're getting data.

Chriszt: I think about it this way: When I say "listening to them," what that actually looks like is...well, let me take a step back and tell you, when I have these engagements in these smaller towns and communities, what that looks like. I usually like to target a civic organization, where we can get community leaders and business leaders in one area—so think Rotary Clubs, Kiwanis Clubs, places like that. And I talk for really only 10–15 minutes about what the Fed is, a little bit about our history, our mission, why I'm there. And from there it goes right into questions and answers—and when I say "questions," we get lots of questions, and I try my best to answer as many as I can. The listening really comes into play during that Q&A period. You can tell a lot about what is on people's minds through not just what they're asking, but how they're asking it. And there's a nuance to it. What I like to do is try to put themes together of, "These are the kinds of questions that I'm getting during my visits to smaller communities and small towns." So, that listening part is really part and parcel of this initiative.

Heintjes: Let me ask you—when people talk to you about how the economy is working for them—and I guess, conversely, how it might not be working for them—what are some examples of things that you hear along those lines?

Chriszt: So today, of course, I think the main question, or series of questions, are about inflation: "How did it get so high? What is the Federal Reserve doing about it?" Also questions about, "Are we in a recession? What does that mean? Are we going to be in a recession?" Questions like that. So the broad questions about how the national economy is doing is a very consistent theme of the questions that I've gotten over the last six months or so. When you drill down and go into smaller communities, some of these towns are not thriving economically. So, there would be a comment that says—I'm kind of paraphrasing, but—"We've been in a recession for 20 years, ever since the plant closed, and now we have higher prices to deal with. What's the Fed's view on that? What are you guys planning to do to help us out?"

Heintjes: That's a good question. How do you reply?

Chriszt: With those kinds of questions, there's a structural component to it and a cyclical component. The cyclical component is inflation, which the Fed has significant influence over. And the Fed is doing everything—as you know, you read Raphael's speeches and follow the FOMC—doing everything in its power to bring inflation down at the moment. Things that are out of our control are if there's a large textile plant or manufacturing plant in town that was a major employer that closed its doors 20 years ago. We really don't have any impact on that. The way I answer those questions: as straightforward as I can, and to be honest about, "We don't have any control over what industries set up where, but we do have a lot of contacts in communities where they have made adjustments and have charted a new path." And it's not like they rely on us for that information. These people are incredibly sophisticated, Tom. They understand the challenges that they face in the places that are not doing well economically, and they learn from past attempts to chart a new path. They look at what's happening in towns that have charted a new path that has been successful, and they look to emulate that. So, we have a discussion about ways to improve a community, as far as its economy—discuss, really take on straightforward some of the challenges that they have. But also, we're the Federal Reserve. This is what we have influence over, and this is what we don't have influence over and try to make that as clear as I can.

Heintjes: You just cited an example of a very tough question to respond to. Can you pinpoint one that you would consider your toughest question that you've received?

Chriszt: That's a great question, Tom. Maybe that's the toughest question I've received. [laughter] Like I said, I try to put things into themes, and I think for questions about the future—like predictions, like "What's going to happen to the economy?" "Are we going to be in a recession?" "When is inflation coming down?" "How high are interest rates going to go before inflation comes down?" All of those are forecasting questions, and it's frustrating to me not to be able to answer those, because I don't know. And we can do the best we can to try to figure out what the right. Raphael mentioned this in his talk just the other day about what's the inflection point? How high do interest rates have to go? And to share where his thinking is on that is the best way—really, the only way—that I can answer those forecasting questions. But those are the toughest ones, because there's no direct answers for them.

Heintjes: You get all this anecdotal information, and you're able to see trends and commonalities. What do you do with it when you come back to the office? What do you do with all this information that you've received?

Chriszt: The goal is—and again, we're just starting out on this, so we're still trying to figure out the best communication channels—but the goal is to share what I hear with our Research team that serves as policy advisers for President Bostic and with our regional executives in whatever area I happen to be in the Southeast. So, for example, I was in Alabama last month. When I got back I had a debrief session with Anoop Mishra, the regional executive in our Birmingham Branch, just to share "here's what I heard, here's where I've been"—those kinds of things. And also sharing with our Public Affairs team, so they have a sense for the questions that are top of mind for the public. So when they're thinking about what a good article would be for Economy Matters, for example, that might be used to help inform that. It's really bringing things back to make our decisions about what we communicate more informed and also to make sure that President Bostic's policy advisers are incorporating that input into their overall economic narrative.

Heintjes: We'll be right back to our conversation, but please let's take a moment to listen to this message from the Atlanta Fed.

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Heintjes: Okay, I'm back with Mike Chriszt, and we're discussing his outreach efforts in the Southeast. Mike, let's pick back up by letting me ask you about people's notions about the Fed. As we know, there are a lot of misconceptions about the Fed, which is among the reasons we have various outreach efforts in the first place. You've spoken to a lot of groups over the years. What would you say, in general, are the biggest misconceptions about the Fed?

Chriszt: There are a couple of things that come to mind, Tom. One is the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy. A lot of questions that I get are really about fiscal policy. And although not quite a question, people are surprised to learn how, exactly, monetary policy is made. It's not just one person at the Board of Governors in Washington making the decision. It's a decision that's made by the Federal Open Market Committee and explaining what that committee looks like. People are surprised to hear that they get input from around the country. And just as an aside, what I like to do is work in a bit of history to that conversation and explain why the Fed is structured the way it is, going all the way back to Jefferson or to [Alexander] Hamilton. And so, people just haven't had the exposure to that story. Again, not a question that I've received, but surprise at how monetary policy comes together and the fact that it's, again, made by committee and not driven just by economists and forecasts, but with input from the public. I think you mentioned our Regional Economic Information Network at the outset. That is a key part of building our economic narrative at the Atlanta Fed. So I think people are surprised to learn that that is how we develop monetary policy and advise President Bostic here.

Heintjes: Do these sorts of misconceptions vary from big cities to small towns, or regionally throughout the Southeast, or are they the same general misimpressions that you work to correct all over the place?

Chriszt: People have so much more access to information today than they did five years ago, let alone 20 to 30 years ago, and so the questions are more detailed, if that makes sense. It's not just general, broad questions about, "Is the economy going to grow or shrink?" I'll give you an example of a talk I gave a couple of weeks ago, where the preamble to the question was paraphrasing Chairman Powell's press conference: "The Chairman said this at his latest press conference—how does that affect..." I forget the details of the question, but what stood out to me was that these people do their homework, they are aware—and this is a small town in rural Georgia. It doesn't matter if it's—like I said a second ago—if it's Atlanta or a small town. People have access to so much more information. And this actually goes back to something you were talking about before, Tom, about transparency and how positive that is for the Fed that people have access to that information. The downside, of course, and the risk to that is, some of that information out there isn't that accurate. And so we do work—not just me, but my colleagues across the Atlanta Fed—really, across the whole Federal Reserve System that have the opportunity to engage the public directly. We do work to inform them about, "That might not be completely accurate—let me tell you how our thinking is on that." Or "Let me explain this to you in a different way." And always out of respect, because some of the questions we get really aren't rooted in trusted sources or facts. I learned a lesson a long time ago—do I have time to tell a quick story?

Heintjes: Sure, absolutely.

Chriszt: I was doing a talk. This was at the height of the Great Recession, so there was a lot of anger out there—as there should be, because there were a lot of people that were suffering. And the preamble to the gentleman's question went on for a couple of minutes, and then he stopped and I said, "I'm not sure if I heard a question there." And I was serious about it. I wanted to make sure I was being responsive to the question that he had, but unfortunately the rest of the audience thought I was making a joke. Everybody laughed, and I felt horrible about that because it was not my intention to embarrass the gentleman. I went up to him and apologized to him afterwards and said, basically, "I'm really sorry that people thought I was trying to be funny or cute—that wasn't the case." But that has always stuck with me: no matter what the question is and how unrooted in fact it might be, to always be respectful—we're a public service organization, we work for the public—and no matter what questions we get, to be respectful and try to answer them as best we can.

Heintjes: I'm going to follow up on that story, because that's a great illustration. Did he graciously accept your apology?

Chriszt: He did.

Heintjes: I'm glad it had a happy ending.

Chriszt: Yes.

Heintjes: Mike, from where you sit now, what does success in your role look like? I don't mean, suddenly everyone understands the Fed's mission and how it develops monetary policy, but on a more grassroots level, how do you get a sense of how—or whether—you're moving the needle?

Chriszt: Great question, and the answer to that, Tom, is under development—because like I said, when we started this initiative, I just started doing it. And so, we're going back and thinking about the strategy going forward. But there are some measurables that I want to think more about. For example, more subscribers to Economy Matters, which I know you would love.

Heintjes: That would delight me.

Chriszt: More people following us on social media, more clicks on the website for Raphael's speeches. So part of what I do when I'm out talking to people is to make them aware of the resources that are available to them for free from the Atlanta Fed. So if we're seeing an uptick in the areas where I visit, of people that are following us, that is one measurable. But at the end of the day, I've had so many conversations about this back when I was in Public Affairs about how you're going to measure your impact. I feel strongly that there's such value in just doing it and being present, being available, being accountable and transparent—like we were talking about before. And in some ways, how do you measure that? Well, you can say, "I've talked to so many groups in so many towns to so many people." To me, that is a measure of success because it shows that we seriously understand what our responsibility is, to be present and accountable and transparent to the public.

Heintjes: As we noted, you have not been in this outreach role for very long, so it might be premature to ask this, but I will anyway: What would you describe as the most unexpected thing you've encountered so far, in terms of a question you were asked, an anecdote that was shared with you, or a speeding ticket you received—anything like that?

Chriszt: No speeding tickets so far.

Heintjes: Very good.

Chriszt: But you know—not just because I'm old now, as you pointed out at the outset...thank you again for that.

Heintjes: You're welcome.

Chriszt: But I've always been a rather slow, right-hand lane driver, so I think I'm safe with regard to that. It's been gratifying to see...and again, going back to something I mentioned a few minutes ago: many of the places that I have the opportunity to visit aren't thriving economically, but no matter where I go there's such a strong sense of community, pride, optimism—the things you hear about small-town America, it's actually true and I've seen it firsthand. Like I said before, they're not unaware of the challenges that they face, but the sense of optimism and warmth is there. One of the things I like to do when I go to town is, I just don't want to blow in, give a speech, and blow back out of town. I want to spend some time there. I had a speaking engagement at noon, so in the morning I was walking around the town—down, of course, Main Street, just getting a feel for the area. And I passed a mailperson, and she was running off to her car, and I said, "How are you doing?" She said, "Oh, we're really busy—busy time of year." A couple minutes later—and I should also say, I like to take pictures of where I'm going, so I'm walking around taking pictures of stuff—a couple minutes later, she passes me again, and just kind of a friendly wave. About ten minutes later we pass each other again, and she kind of looked at me like, "Who is this person, and what is he doing in my town with his camera?" So there's that sense of warmth that I get from people. I like to pop into shops, dine at local restaurants. People have been incredibly nice even when they don't know who I am, and then the groups that I speak to, they've been very, very welcoming.

Heintjes: As you mentioned, you kind of went into this role maybe without a master plan. You just started doing it and figuring it out as you went. Based on what you've experienced so far, how has your strategy changed? And will you be doing anything differently in 2023?

Chriszt: Yes. Like I mentioned, it's an evolving strategy, but one thing I want to make sure I do is spend more time in the places that I visit. Usually I have—like I gave the example before about. I had the morning—I got into town that night, and then gave the talk at noon, and then I had to go. I didn't have a whole lot of time to spend there, so I want to build in more time for these visits—and I want to be able to speak to more groups of more people, to get a diversity of views. You can only do so much in a day. You can only learn so much from speaking to one group or a couple of shop owners, so I want to try to be much more inclusive going forward.

Heintjes: You touched on something I wanted to follow up on. The Southeast has countless charming small towns, each with its unique character. And of course, a lot of great—as you mentioned—little restaurants and cafés, and attractions like museums. Is there anything you make it a point to do, in particular, when you visit? I know I wouldn't be able to resist trying all the barbecue in all the towns.

Chriszt: You're exactly right with the barbecue. I'm going to south Georgia on Monday, and I already know where I'm having lunch, at what barbecue joint—I'm totally serious. You hit that one on the head.

Heintjes: It's important to have priorities.

Chriszt: That's my weakness, too—and I haven't been to a bad barbecue place in the last six months. So that's really kind of a real example, and I mentioned this a second ago, I like to go into shops, I like to talk to people—not "man on the street," do an interview, but just the kind of chit-chat that you have. And they all know you're from out of town, and they say, "What brings you to our town?" And you tell them, and many times a conversation starts from there. And sometimes the conversation could get very detailed, about interest rates, depending on who you have the luck to talk to. So there is a lot of that, just walking through town. I also love to stop at Chambers of Commerce, just to talk to the people that work there—not any kind of formal interview, but just get some information about the places that I'm visiting, because they always have the brochures, and that sort of thing. And time allowing, I love to pop into the local library, because my wife worked at a library and she tells me it's one of the places—and my wife's also from a small town, so she's informed my understanding quite a bit—but those are the places I like to do kind of on the side, apart from the formal part of giving a talk.

Heintjes: Are you also from a small town?

Chriszt: I'm not. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. I've lived in three big cities in my life: Cleveland, Atlanta, and Washington, DC, so I'm not from a small town. But I've always been enthralled by the stories that [my wife] Maxine has told me—her growing up in a small town where her daddy was the town sheriff—and the opportunity to drive through places and stop at local antique stores—all that we loved to do together before, so even though I'm not from a small town, I feel very strong...I don't know if I have the right to say "ties" to small town yet. I think I have to earn those stripes, but I do have an affinity for those communities.

Heintjes: Small town by marriage, at least.

Chriszt: Small town-in-law—is that the...?

Heintjes: Right. So, Mike, if anyone listening to this episode in the Southeast is interested in having you speak to their organization, how would they go about making that happen?

Chriszt: Probably the best way is, we have on our website the Speakers Bureau information, and they can request me in particular. Absent that, I'm happy to fill out any form that they don't want to fill out on the Speakers Bureau page, just by emailing me or giving me a call. This is what I do now. I'm dedicated 100 percent to this effort, and I don't want to miss an opportunity because folks don't know how to get in contact with us.

Heintjes: You mentioned being physically present, but I have to ask: do you do this in person as well as virtually, or is it all in person?

Chriszt: I prefer in person. I've done a couple virtual, because calendars didn't line up and there was a set date that folks needed a speaker. But there's just something special about being able to connect to people face to face and actually have boots on the ground in the community and really get a sense for what's happening in the economies in these areas by being physically present. So I'll do virtual when we have to, but I much prefer to work with a group to try to find a date where I can come and be physically present.

Heintjes: And get some barbecue.

Chriszt: Well, yes. I wasn't going to mention that, but that's part of it.

Heintjes: Well, Mike, this has been a really, really great conversation. I appreciate your spending some time with us today.

Chriszt: It's great to be here. I appreciate your time.

Heintjes: And that brings us to the end of another episode of the Economy Matters podcast. Again, I'm Tom Heintjes, managing editor of the Atlanta Fed's Economy Matters magazine. On the Atlanta Fed's website at atlantafed.org you'll be able to learn more about the Atlanta Fed and its role in the development of monetary policy. Thanks again for listening, and I hope you'll be back for next month's episode of the podcast, when we'll sit down with the Atlanta Fed's Ann Carpenter and Sarah Stein, who will discuss the economic implications of what is commonly known as "heirs property." As always, I appreciate your spending some time with us, and I look forward to doing it again next time.